Clutch feel

"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678)
10/13/2016 at 09:29 • Filed to: None

Clutch feel is a very odd thing. After my recent Porsche rental and a past Smart car rental, I have truly learned how different some clutches can feel. These cars have represented polar opposites along with my daily driver Miata falling somewhere in the middle. Before I learned to drive manual, I just figured all clutches would perform the same job and feel generally the same. I knew of course there could be differences in where the grab point would be and how easy a car may stall but I never realized how big of a difference the weight could make. The weight of a clutch really defines a car’s personality and effort required to drive it. But it is just odd how you can get used to one clutch and switching to another just feels so foreign.

Never thought I could ever find a way to compare these three cars.

The rental smart car just felt really easy to drive. I didnt notice how light it was at first until I returned home and my Miata felt like I needed Herculean strength to operate the clutch. That in addition to heavier steering and quicker throttle input made it feel like I daily drive a race car in comparison.

Then the rental Cayman again felt so much heavier for clutch inputs but steering and throttle were basically in the same responsive category. But in this case, I didnt really notice the clutch difference until I got back in my Miata and thought the hydraulic pressure must have been lost. I had a few jerky shifts until I rememered how to drive.

I just realized overall how crazy that ‘clutch feel’ experience is. If you have ever driven a variety of manual cars, I am sure you have seen the same. Maybe this is just something that comes obvious to people but being relatively new to manual driving, it has given me a further appreciation of the ‘hobby’.

DISCUSSION (22)

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 09:34

It seems like most clutches are way overboosted these days. I don’t know if it’s because everything else is as well or if it’s because for most cars the clutch is an afterthought since they are generally only available on base models for a small number of buyers. I always thought the clutch in the BRZ felt numb until I replaced it with a heavier duty exedy clutch and pressure plate and it was way heavier and just better feeling in every way.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 09:39

The worst manual transmission is used was a 2013 base model Dodge Dart. It was a six speed, but neither the clutch nor the shifter communicated anything to you. Th clutch was weight less and you couldn’t really feel it grab at all. The shifter felt like it was moving thought a bowl of pudding. To top things of the shifter was made out of the cheapest hardest, most hallow peice of plastic I’ve ever felt in a car.

Tripper > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 09:39

It is wild how you can drive a 3 pedal golf will little more than the weight of your foot. If you jump in an older 911 with a floor mounted cable clutch you will see the opposite end of that spectrum.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Tripper
10/13/2016 at 09:46

Yeah, I really want to try some heavier clutches now. New VWs are definitely the weirdest with how light it is. I recall the second manual car I ever tried to drive was a ‘13 Golf and I was confused because of how easy it was.

extraspecialbitter > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 09:51

I switch between my Impretzel and M3 frequently. Throughout the week, I’ll drive one more than the other. If it’s the M3's week and I switch to my Impretzel (which I’ve owned for well over 6 years; 50 miles a day through DC area traffic), I’ll need a good 10 minutes to get used to it again.

The weight doesn’t really affect me. I sincerely feel that the weight of the clutch is overrated, mainly because I don’t really think about it when I’m driving.

What gets to me is the friction zone. The Impretzel wants you to be in the friction zone for a smoother shift. The M3 will unleash the Third Reich on you for not being fast enough.

So when driving the M3 again, I’ll actually say out loud, “Vhen you vant ze gear, YOU GET ZE GEAR!!!” over and over until I get the hang of it again.

Tripper > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 09:54

I drove an older golf and the light clutch was made infinitely more awkward by an engine who’s rpms would hang for what seemed like minutes when down shifting. It was really weird. To be honest I’ve not driven any 3 pedal VW/Audi that I liked the feel of (RS4 included). That is part of what got me over the hump on the DSG for my current car.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > extraspecialbitter
10/13/2016 at 09:56

Oh yeah, depending on the car the friction zone is just brutal for some clutches. My Miata does not care what I do to it, the car will shift smoothly and it will not stall. I have only stalled the car while doing 180 degree spins at autox. But the Mini Cooper S I rented in March, that thing was so particular during first gear shifts. It would just stall seemingly at random, any time I would get complacent or lazy. I only stalled the Porsche a couple times but that was due to my unwillingness to give it much gas during 1st or reverse, since I didnt want to burn the clutch at all. I definitely agree with you that some cars are fascists about friction zones.

DipodomysDeserti > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 09:56

I owned a ‘63 Corvair, ‘91 Loyale, and an Abarth 500 all in manual at the same time for a few years. Holy crap did those clutches feel different from one another. The Loyale had the best behaving. The Corvair wasn’t bad, but it had a real heavy return, and if your foot slipped off the pedal the clutch linkage would come out of the transmission and you’d have to bump start it and dry shift it home. The Abarth had an extremely light clutch with a weird springy release. I still didn’t like it after two years. My Wrangler has a better feeling clutch than the Abarth.

yamahog > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 10:10

Yep. I just test drove a manual S10, which has a vastly different pedal feel from my Camaro, which was very different from the my dad’s TDI and trashed fox body I learned to drive manual in, and obviously all are very different from the various motorcycles I’ve had.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 10:23

It’s always jarring going between the old Mazda truck and the WRX. The truck has a light clutch and a friction zone a mile wide. The WRX is much harder with a very narrow friction zone.

The hardest clutch I’ve had to operate was on a 1970-something Chevy one-ton truck. It was extremely heavy with a friction zone the width of a gnat’s ass.

Mid Engine > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 10:24

I’ve never stalled my car, but my step son damned near killed it in less than 10 minutes of driving, the smell was agonizing. He drives a ‘99 Honda Pilot manual, suffice to say a Porsche feels a lot different.

You CAN change the feel of a manual system. In my case I swapped out the stock shifter for a Porsche Short Shifter kit and the shifts were much more precise, Porsche should make the kit a standard part on their manual cars. I also changed the stock cables (that are prone to snap) to Numeric racing cables and what an awesome change (snick, snick, snick)! So yeah, the clutch is part of the system, but so is the rest of the drive train.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > yamahog
10/13/2016 at 10:25

How comparable is the feel of a motorcycle to a car clutch? I know its switched around between hand/foot operated but I am curious if the resistance and friction area stuff is at all similar.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Mid Engine
10/13/2016 at 10:29

Good way of putting it, there are many parts involved with how a car feels. And so even two examples of the same car can feel vastly different. Adds another layer of complexity to the uniqueness of different clutches.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 10:46

Not only weight, but travel and actuation point as well. I was trying to move my dad’s Volvo a couple of weeks ago (I drive it perhaps once every two to three months), and sat there wondering why the hell it didn’t move, until I realized the clutch pedal was only about halfway up and the bite point is somewhere very near the top.

yamahog > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 10:49

I haven’t physically measured the differences but the bikes also vary and it’s easier to adjust clutch play on a bike too. My R6 has a lot of travel, like the Camaro, but the friction point is a bit smaller (in proportion, obviously much smaller overall). I tend to give more gas to the bike when starting from a stop because of the nature of the beast, not as much bottom end as my old FZ6 or (obviously again) the Camaro. Also clutchless upshifts are much easier for me on a bike.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > yamahog
10/13/2016 at 11:02

Interesing. I have a friend that rides a motorcycle but hasnt quite figured out yet how to drive manual cars. I figured it would be an easy transition to drive a car after being used to a bike, but I guess it isnt always.

yamahog > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 11:06

Heh, that was actually the main reason my dad got a dirtbike for my sister and I - to make it easier for us to learn how to drive manual when we got older.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 11:29

The Niva’s clutch is much heavier than my friend’s 2015 Colorado’s. Or at least it feels like it’s doing something, I had a lot of trouble finding the Colorado’s engagement point. Those are the only two manuals I’ve driven within recent enough memory to be relevant.

Justin Hughes > Mid Engine
10/13/2016 at 11:50

My BRZ had an easy clutch from the factory - too easy, and absolutely zero feedback through the pedal. One of the local 86 guys did a mod that involved removing a spring that actually helps pull the clutch down to the floor, not up as you would expect. The feel and effort isn’t linear anymore, but now I can feel the clutch engaging rather than having to guess. Best of all, the mod was free.

Justin Hughes > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 11:52

I had a friend just getting into riding who had never driven a stick, which presented quite a problem. Learning both at the same time was too much to handle. So I used my Civic wagon to take the bike out of the equation and focus on manual shifting. After that, the bike was much easier to handle.

DynamicWeight > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)
10/13/2016 at 12:12

Just like cars, bike clutches all feel very different as well. They have different tensions, travels, grab points etc. etc. One thing is that since you’re pulling so much less weight, they tend to be a little more “on off” than a car’s clutch. Also factor in you can buy different clutch handles. Speaking of which, I’ve been meaning to buy a new handle for my bike...

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Justin Hughes
10/13/2016 at 12:52

Hmm, yeah I would think with no clutch operation experience and no motorcycle experience, it would be really hard to do both. But he had years of dirt biking so I imagine that helped a bit.